A conversation with Changhee LEE, Director of the ILO Country Office for China and Mongolia, by Sina Finance

Changhee LEE, ILO Country Office Director for China and Mongolia, recently engaged in a conversation with Sina Finance to discuss various topics within the world of work. The discussion covered areas such as decent work for sustainable development, working hours, gender equality, decent work in supply chains, and the protection of platform workers.

Decent work is one of the most important agendas of the International Labour Organization (ILO) and is included in the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDG 8: Decent Work and Economic Growth). Currently, in the pursuit of achieving the goal of decent work, what opportunities and challenges are present? What are some potential solutions?

The concept of decent work express humankind idea about basic conditions for work which not only allows people to make a living but also to have a dignity. Not easy to obtain in real world, but this should be the objective of our society which we should pursue. Work that is freely chosen without coercion, work that is productive generating wealth for society and for workers and their families, work which comes with basic social protection such as health insurance, pension and others protecting workers against key risks of work and life, work which comes with a voice, meaning when there are problems workers should be able to express their views without a fear of losing a job. That is why the decent work is an integral part of SDG, more precisely SDG 8: decent work and economic growth. 

All ILO member states are striving to create decent jobs. But no single country can claim we have achieved decent work for all – we make continuous efforts for it by addressing key challenges while seizing opportunities. Technological innovation is an opportunity for people to do more productive work, increasing productivity per person. But at the same time, it is a challenge. Particularly with AI and other disruptive technological breakthroughs, there is a danger that speed of replacement of labour by machine may be faster than creation of new jobs with high added value. Another challenge is rising inequality, which we witness in most of ILO member states. Wage share of GDP has constantly declined in recent years. In this situation, it is hard to ensure decent work. We need reform to ensure people earn enough income from their work, through progressive tax system, social protection including minimum wage policies, and promotion of collective wage bargaining. 

Labour Day originated from the fight for the "8-hour workday." However, with technological advancements and the development of new skills, we have noticed many industries experiencing widespread instances of overtime work. The so-called "flexible work schedule" might make lines between work and life blur more drastically, and long hours are sometimes disguised within contracts as mutually agreed upon by both parties. How do you perceive this situation?

You are absolutely right. The working people’s fight for 8 hours a day was the origin of the Labour Day. And the first ILO Convention which was adopted immediately after the ILO was established was Convention No 1 on Hours of Work, defining 8 hours as an industrial standard. Before national legislation on working hours and the ILO Convention No 1, there was no legal limit to working hours, often forcing workers, many of whom were children, to work for more than 14 or even 16 hours a day. At the same time, there was no legal minimum wage as well. It created a situation where workers compete against each other for a job at whatever wage level and working hours, pushing working conditions worse and worse. Through introduction of modern labour laws supported by the ILO, in the 20th century we created ‘social floors’ below which working conditions should not fall, including legal working hours, minimum wages, work safety and health, and others.

We face new challenges in the 21st century, the era of rapid transformation of business model and work organizations. As you said, the line between work and life has become blurred, and excessive overtime has caused concerns in our society. But they may not be the exactly same problems. Excessive overtime for employees may require stricter law enforcement, and change of workplace management and culture. Excessive overtime is not the way to improve company performance and productivity. It can demotivate employees, especially young workers, particularly the MZ generation. Working smarter is the solution for achieving higher productivity. There are numerous studies showing excessive overtime is not just bad for health of workers but also for companies’ productivity and economic performance. We must change the practice and we can change it if there is a shared will.

But the blurred line between work and life particularly for workers in the platform economy requires new approaches to working conditions, including working hours, for a growing number of platform workers. This is a relatively new phenomenon which has become a rapidly growing social issue around the world, yet no country in the world has come up with perfect solutions to it. 

Equality of opportunity and treatment for all women and men is one of the key elements of Decent Work. What progress has been made in labour rights protection under the gender equality umbrella in recent years?

We all agree men and women should enjoy equal opportunities and rights. No one question this. Yet no society is free from discrimination. Even in the countries where there is relatively good laws and policies, we can still find discrimination against women at work whether directly or indirectly. 

According to ILO estimates, for example, women earn on average about 20 per cent less than men, although there are wide variations across countries. Many factors can lie behind gender pay gaps, including occupational segregation, or discrimination in pay for women doing the work of equal value, and in access to particular types of jobs.

Women shoulder disproportionate burden of unpaid care work. Often women have to interrupt their professional career due to motherhood and various care work, putting them in disadvantageous position in job markets. 

If we are not successful in addressing gender inequality at work and in our society, it is hard to reverse the trend of low fertility, which post a threat to long term sustainability of our society and indeed humankinds. My own country, Korea, recorded the lowest fertility rate in the world – 0.72 in 2023. If this trend continues, our current population of 50 million will be reduced to 20 million by 2100. I hope China would not face a similar disaster. 

A good thing is China has been promoting gender equality since the establishment of PRC.  The principle of equality between men and women is enshrined in the Constitution of China. Over a few decades China has progressively improved its laws and regulations, public policies, and development plans for promoting gender equality and safeguarding women’s rights and interest. Yet we face challenges of declining fertility rates and population, and there are significant rooms for improvement. I am fully aware about excellent policies of giving tax break for families with more children, support for care work, and flexible working arrangements. We may need to do more to ensure gender equality at work and society, addressing not only direct but also indirect discrimination. Only with such comprehensive measures, we can create common prosperity where women play vital roles as productive workers. 

The ILO Country Office for China and Mongolia is working with Chinese tripartite constituents and other partners in China to develop a systematic and a multi-faceted approach that includes implementing family-friendly policies, encouraging men to share family responsibilities, and ensuring fair employment opportunities for women and men, creating a more inclusive and supportive work environment. 

It is essential for policymakers, workers’ and employers’ organizations, and society as a whole to work together to create a more gender-equal and supportive work environment for women in China.

Supply chain management remains one of the most significant levers for businesses to positively impact the world. How can businesses regulate the protection of labour rights throughout their supply chains, both upstream and downstream?

In the today’s globalized world, multinational companies play important roles and generate impacts, beyond their specific business objectives, regardless of their legal status, size, ownership or sectors. They are key players who should contribute to sustainable development in the countries where they operate, but they should also avoid and address negative impacts their operations might cause. 

It is important that companies adopt and promote socially responsible business practices in their own operations, business partners and supply chains. Socially responsible business practices are practices through which companies ensure they do not have a negative impact on people and planet, but on the contrary, contribute positively to decent work and inclusive economic growth.

Globally there are three important instruments on Responsible Business Conducts companies in the supply chains are expected to respect and promote; the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights; ILO Tripartite Declaration of Principles Concerning Multinational Enterprises and Social Policy, and; OECD MNE Guidelines for Responsible Business Conducts. These instruments provide guidance to governments, employers’ organizations, workers’ organizations, and companies, to stimulate the positive contribution of business, to decent work and social economic development and mitigate and resolve potential adverse impacts their operations may have.

In terms of what enterprises can do, first of all, companies should make sure that their business or the other businesses the work with will “do no harm”, namely will not have negative impact, including no child labour, no forced labour, no employment discrimination, create safe and healthy working environment, and allow for social dialogue and workplace cooperation based on freedom of association and collective bargaining-giving workers’ a voice. 

In addition, companies should respect workers’ rights in their own operations, implement an effective system of due diligence to verify that business partners respect workers’ rights, ensure effective supply chain management, and help build a culture of respect for the rule of law.

In modern world where companies’ behaviour is closely monitored by media and citizens, this is also important part of systematic risk management at the minimum. Also many studies show companies with socially responsible business practices tend to perform economically better than companies without those practices. It is not just good for workers and their communities, but also good for companies. At macro level and in the long run, if companies adopt socially responsible business practices, it can help to remove or at least mitigate the widespread sense of unfairness of today’s globalized world. The sense of unfairness and deprivation is what drives populism and protectionism around the world. 

Companies around the world, including Chinese companies, should work towards the sustainable development by actively adopting and implementing socially responsible business practices in line with three global instruments I just mentioned. For that, ILO is always read to support companies and their associations. 

We have observed that there are many flexible workers in China currently. How do you view the protection of the rights of these workers?

New forms of employment or flexible workers include many diverse forms of work. And most prominent new forms of employment can be found in the platform economy. But it is clearly on the rise globally, though share of platform workers among total workforce is hard to measure, as there is no international agreed definition of platform work, and it varies from one country to another. Though there is no official statistics on number of workers in the platform economy, it is quite clear that China has witnessed rapid rise of platform workers. 

The platform economy has great potentials for driving economic growth and creating more jobs. But it comes with new challenges. Are they employees, self-employed or something else? Are they entitled to social security coverage? Are there new occupational health and safety risks associated with different types of platform workers? How are their working hours defined? What are roles and what should be proper roles of AI algorithms and other digital technologies vis-à-vis traditional HRM and labour relations process in making assignment, deciding pace of work, monitoring of workers’ performance and rewarding them? Are their views and interests are properly represented by trade unions through dialogue and collective bargaining? How can we ensure the wealth created by platform economies are distributed in fair manner, instead of exacerbating existing inequalities?

Virtually all countries, whether developed or developing, face these new challenges – not just China. And no country has come up with satisfactory policy responses to these new challenges. 

That is why the International Labour Organization decided to develop a new international labour standard to ensure decent work in the platform economy in 2025. Once adopted, the new international labour standard will provide a global reference for adequate protection to workers while allowing enterprises flexibility, ensuring shared prosperity and social justice in the era of digitalization.   

China has one of the most dynamic platform economies in the world. Furthermore, China has introduced a series of new policies designed to provide proper protection to workers in the platform economy, who were not properly protected by the conventional labour laws due to their ambiguous employment contract status. I think China has many things to share with other member states of the ILO in the process of formulating new international labour standards on decent work in the platform economy.

The interview was published by Sina Finance at: 对话国际劳工组织李昌徽：中国是拥有最具活力平台经济的国家之一，有很多劳动者保障经验可以分享（中文）